A Discussion with Sarah McNulty, Co-Founder & President, The Kinetix Group

Emily Chang: Hi. I’m Emily Chang anchor and executive producer of Bloomberg Technology and author of Brotopia. Welcome to the SHEconomics series honoring women who are blazing trails as founders and CEOs. Today, I am joined by Sarah McNulty, president and founder of the Kinetix Group which offers healthcare delivery services and marketing.

Sarah, thank you for joining us. It's great to be here with you.

Sarah McNulty: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Emily: So, the story of how you got into pharma marketing is kind of epic. And I would love for you to share it with us. How did you end up on this path?

Sarah: Sure. I'd be happy to. I mean, I don't think anybody grows up dreaming to be a pharmaceutical marketer. You know, and I studied business and I had big ideas of living in New York City and working for a sleek Madison Avenue agency. But those jobs were few and far between and they paid like nothing. So, I was out one night with some friends and actually met a friend of a friend at a bar and wrote my name and number on a napkin and lo and behold, I got my first job working on the very sexy Imodium A-D account.

Emily: Who knew Imodium A-D? I mean, how did that end up opening so many doors?

Sarah: Well, you know, it was funny. I was like, okay, you know, you'll do anything, you'll take anything, but then once I got there, I actually started to appreciate the approach of marketing the brand. And it actually was a whole franchise of brands, including Pediacare and Tylenol and some others. And I started to think, you know what? There really is an opportunity to provide value here rather than helping somebody decide, you know, if one peanut butter is crunchy or chunkier than the other one, you know, really helping people make an informed healthcare decision. And so, you know, that really hit home for me. And so, I decided to stay along that path and had wonderful opportunities.

Emily: It's one thing to think about taking a chance. It's another thing to actually take that chance. So, I mean, was there fear? Was there apprehension? You know, what was the biggest obstacle you had to overcome?

Sarah: I mean, it was all those things. It was scary. I was fortunate that, you know, I was in a dual-income family. So, you know, my husband had an income coming in. So, financially, you know, it was obviously a cut not having a regular salary, but I was fortunate not to be on my own. But, you know, it took me a while to build the confidence to make decisions that, you know, there wasn't anybody telling me what to do, that I was in charge. And, you know, there were definitely some bumps along the way with that.

Emily: Now, there are so many women out there who think they can't start their own company and have a family and, you know, have a career at the same time. How did you do it?

Sarah: Yeah. So I mean, that is a big driver of mine. Even until this day, there's no reason why a working parent can't have it all. I mean, it's not easy. It's a balance no matter what your choices are, but there's no reason you can't have a career where you can thrive and still be an engaged parent. So for me, you know, working from home made a huge difference. And we were lucky. You know, we had babysitters and a variety of help, but to be able to pop over to a school concert or to bring somebody to school or do the carpool and hear that chitter-chatter where you pick up so much in the background, made a huge difference for me in being able to have a work-family balance.

Emily: So, you made an interesting point there, working from home. So, you were working from home from the very early days. And that was actually built into the culture of your company. When the pandemic happened, you know, not only were people working from home, they were working from home with their kids on their lap, having to school their children, was that still a challenge or, you know, were you able and was the company able to navigate that smoothly because you had the systems and this infrastructure in place?

Sarah: I mean, certainly, I felt like it was a much smoother ride for us than it was for many other people. I mean, it feels funny saying this, 2020 was our best year ever. Embarrassing that during a pandemic, but it was a challenge. So for people who were used to working from home, yeah, now they had their kids at home and then maybe their spouse was also working from home. So, it did become a balance. You know, the good news was, everybody was in that situation. Our clients were in that situation. So whereas before, you know, having somebody run behind you during a conference call or the dog barking, you know, you would have been mortified. Now everybody was doing it. I also think a thing that really helped across the board is the switch flipped with using technology. I mean, the idea of Zoom has been around for... and Zoom itself has been around for a long time. But now, suddenly, we really started to leverage that. In fact, a woman in my office mentioned recently, she works in North Carolina, and she's been with us for 15 years. And she said, "I feel more connected to people now than I ever did because we knew nobody was together." So, we made such a point of having people together and we had Zoom cocktail hours, like everybody did, and games, and coffees in the morning. I mean, I think the personal element really improved. It was a silver lining for us.

Emily: You also started sending out some COVID Insight reports, I believe, which augmented the work that you were already doing. Tell us about those.

Sarah: Yeah. That's exactly right. You know, there was information coming from everywhere, right? And we said, let's take advantage of this network that we have. And, you know, part of it was a little self-serving. We wanted to learn on our own, but we put together a group and a network of folks that we would reach out to regularly and ask them, you know, how is COVID impacting you? How do you imagine you're going to start dealing with pharma in the future? And we started packaging these insights initially, just for ourselves. And then we did it in a way that we shared with our customers. But the trick was, there were insights coming in every direction. You couldn't avoid insights. And we did it in a just a very clean, and simple, and concise way with one PowerPoint slide with a couple of highlights and sometimes we'd have a follow-up phone call.

Emily: Now women are underrepresented among entrepreneurs today. They were even more underrepresented among entrepreneurs when you started your company. How much do you think being a woman entrepreneur has changed in the last 20 years?

Sarah: Yeah, I mean, it's certainly evolved in a good way but it's slow, right? It's a long, slow ride. I think that while there are more women now who are entrepreneurs, you know, it's certainly not as many as there should be. But I do think while there may be fewer women who are still in the room, I do think that a woman now has a voice in a way that she didn't before. You know, people are referring to the woman who's in the room, the woman who's the leader, whereas before it was, you know, she might have been there, but she was in the back row.

Emily: So, talk to us about some of the challenges you navigated yourself as a woman entrepreneur dealing in a world, a business world, where mostly men had the power?

Sarah: Yeah, I mean, I remember going to one meeting and, like, nobody knew where the ladies room was or basic things like that. Nobody ever thought of something like that. You come at it from a different way and I come at, and I think what's important that made our company successful is, from the people point of view, you know, people are our product. We're a communication company. The people are our product. So, you know, I do come at it from the voice of, you know, not the black and white financial model, but the surround sound about the culture, and the person, and the work that's involved in doing something. And you know, you could be in a meeting and somebody will say, "Oh, yeah, we'll do it tomorrow." And I'm like, "How are we gonna do it tomorrow? Because it's gonna take all these people and they can't work around the clock and you're gonna get a crappy product." So...

Emily: You have three children.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Emily: How did you do it? I don't know if you believe in the term “work-family balance,” if such a thing exists. Some people say, you know, the mix of work and family. How did you navigate that, I mean, as a business owner?

Sarah: It's a lot. There were a lot of financial risks. There was a lot of travel. There was a lot of long nights. You know, just trying to stay in touch, you know, I have a very good open... I think I have a good relationship. Very communicative. You know, we touch base all the time. I really make a point of, you know, no matter where I am, knowing when they come home from school, checking in, you know, texting them in the morning if I'm not there to say, "Have a good day." I think it's not always the big things. I think it's the little steps along the way that make a difference. And, you know, there's more on you for a woman.

Emily: You also battled breast cancer. Tell us about that journey.

Sarah: Yeah, I mean, that was one of those things, you know, you think you're going in for a routine exam until you're sitting there and you're like, it's not. You know, I never had a lump. I never had any symptoms. I went in for my annual exam that I almost canceled because I had a meeting coming up and I said, "Oh, let me just go," and then all of a sudden, you know, you're sitting there and it started to unravel that they were calling people in and you were there longer. You know, fortunately, I was, you know, being in healthcare, I called a couple of people once I started to get this diagnosis and felt very comfortable with the path that I was on in terms of, you know, I went to Sloan Kettering. I had a vasectomy. I had reconstructive surgery. I had chemotherapy, like all the things you never dream that you were gonna have.

Emily: What was your biggest fear?

Sarah: My biggest fear was telling my children.

Emily: How did you do that?

Sarah: I actually talked to a social worker and Sloan Kettering suggested this. And I was like," I don't need a social worker. I'm fine." But I'm glad that I did. Because they explained to me that your kids care about three things, the three Cs, can I catch it? If you have this, does that mean that I have it? And I was fortunate to have done genetic testing and found out that that was not the case. Did I cause it? Did I cause a lot of stress in the world and that's what made you sick? And then the third thing is care. Who's gonna care for me? Like, how will this impact me? And I will say telling them through that lens, so they would know they're safe, they're okay, and then ultimately, their worlds are gonna change but not, you know, they can still do all the things they wanna do. They love the meal train. They love when the dinners came in. They were sad when that ended.

Emily: So, physically and emotionally, how did you get through it and keep your business running and keep your house running, and keep raising your children, right?

Sarah: Yeah, I mean, it was a lot. It was horrible. It was hard. I'm not gonna lie. I mean, there were days I was like, "I'm never gonna stand up straight again." Like, there was all kinds of surgeries. Yeah, it was scary. But, you know, I have a fantastic team. And this is one of the things I think I learned over the years is to let go and to delegate, which I mean, I like to talk. I'm a control person. I want to be that person. But I started to realize one of the most important things you have to think about is how important it is to listen and good ideas come from everywhere. At that point, I had really built such an incredible team. There's an executive team of seven of us. And so, I really felt that, you know, I needed to take this time off that things were in good hands. You know, and I would check in with them every now and then. But it was a fortunate place in my career to have a horrible personal thing happen.

Emily: How did it change you as a business leader?

Sarah: You know, it made me think about the work that we did. And there's assignments, honestly, that we've turned down now because, you know, I think to myself, we don't need to be involved with this type of person. We don't need to work in this sort of environment. And I think financially, you know, that plays into it too, that we're in a place where I can have the luxury of doing that. But again, it's really the same thing. The thread that runs across both is just being more thoughtful about who you're spending your time with and how you're spending your time, and what you're looking to get out of it.

Emily: So, what advice do you have for women today who, you know, think, "I can't do this?" Right? And they're probably... I'm sure, there are many times where you thought I can't do this, right?

Sarah: Yeah. Absolutely.

Emily: Like, how do you overcome that? And how do you, you know, tell yourself that you can or that they can?

Sarah: I mean, so that's like a layered thing there. Right? So, it's okay that it's hard. You know, it's okay to fail. I think, you know, the biggest thing is to just, you know, believe in yourself and it's okay, that, you don't know anything. They say, fake it until you make it. You know, I think you just have to stick to your values and be comfortable with who you are and know that that might not resonate with everybody. But I think as long as you have that, running through it, in fact, as a company. We just did an exercise about 18 months ago, you know, kind of crystallizing our values because, you know, our culture is so important. I said, "You know what? This can't just come..." I can't be, like, "Okay, here are values. You know, it had to come from the staff." And so, we came up with fine anchoring principles in that, you know, we're genuine for as advertised. We're trusted. We're humble. We're not looking in it for the credit. We're just in it to do a good job. We're versatile. When you're in a service business, you have to be nimble and inclusive, which I think is incredibly important. Again, good ideas come from everywhere. Talent comes from all different places.

Emily: When you look back all the way to the beginning, is there anything that you would have done differently?

Sarah: There's probably a million things. I would have slept more. You know what I think I would have done differently is I would have hired people, been more quick to bring in support, instead of feeling that I had to do it all myself. I think that's, you know, a role of women traditionally might fall in that they feel like they have to have the burden of everything. And I would say that it was both at home and at work. Once I started to let go of that and realize that there's other people that are just as talented, and just as caring, and just as wise, who can do things, you know, had I done that earlier, I think I actually might have gotten more personally fulfilled out of my early years of work.

Emily: You have kids in high school and college, I believe. What advice would you give to your high school self?

Sarah: I mean, my high school self, especially seeing my daughter now in high school, you know, enjoy where you are. When you're young, in particular, and even early in your career, you're so anxious for that next level, for that next step. But where you are, is there's so many great things about it. So if you can just take a breath and enjoy where you are, you know, I think that makes the whole ride better in the long run.

Emily: And what if you're trying to make the decision about being an entrepreneur or not? I mean, do you think everyone has what it takes to be an entrepreneur? You know, how do you know if you have what it takes and what are those qualities?

Sarah: Yeah, I mean, so it's not for everyone. Like, I say that all the time in my office, it's not for everyone. We actually have what I describe as a very entrepreneurial environment. You know, tenure is not a prerequisite for being promoted. You know, if you see something, say something. We have people that have been just two years out of college, very, very talented, real go-getters. They say they want to be involved in something. Okay, take it on. Let's see what you can do. I mean, my view is, and it's easy for me to say because I'm, you know, sort of at the other end, but if there's something you're really passionate about, give it a try. You can always go back and get a job, for the most part. But give it a try. I think, you know, just taking a chance, even if it's a small chance. I feel like you'd feel better about yourself, even if it didn't go your way, you learned something about it that's gonna help you in the next stage.

Emily: And how do you think healthcare will be changed as a result of COVID? I mean, obviously, there’s telemedicine, just so much in the healthcare industry is changing and the healthcare industry is an industry that many say hadn't been touched by technology as much as it should have been. Do you see that happening now and how does the healthcare industry look different post-pandemic?

Sarah: Yeah, I think the use of technology is like in so many industries is really great for healthcare right now. Telemedicine, as you mentioned is a great example of that. You know, I think people are gonna be much more thoughtful about having to actually go into the hospital, having to go into the doctor's office. Also the use of data, I think there's so much more that can be used with data with marrying, you know, geographically patient populations, pairing them with experts. You know, you shouldn't have to drive to the Cleveland Clinic from Michigan if you want a specialist. I think there's a lot with data that can make a very big difference in terms of access to healthcare and wise decisions.

Emily: And when you look back on what you've accomplished so far, what are you most proud of?

Sarah: Oh, geez, I mean, certainly my three children. You know, I'm proud that people come to work and with a smile. I have to say, it's an environment that you rarely hear a cross word. And in fact, just yesterday, somebody mentioned to me, we had our year-end staff Zoom. We have decided not to have a holiday party, but we are trying to get together everybody live in January. We figured we'd wait through the holidays and see how that goes. And there's a woman that we just hired last year. She said, "I didn't know a workplace could be like this. I didn't know that people could be so friendly and so appreciative when you're just doing your job." So, I mean, I don't think there's anything like that. I would say I'm very proud of that.

Emily: I think that's something that you should definitely be proud of, in addition to your children, of course. Sarah, it's wonderful to be here with you. Thank you so much for sharing all of that with us. It was beautiful.

Sarah: Thank you.

Emily: And I learned a lot. Thank you.

Sarah: Yeah, I appreciate the time. So nice talking with you.