Becoming a Driving Force in the Quest for Sustainable Fashion

Michael Mendenhall: Welcome to People Force Podcast by TriNet. I'm your host, Michael Mendenhall. TriNet is a full-service HR solutions company committed to empowering small and medium size b usinesses by supporting their growth and enabling their people. We work with amazing small to medium size businesses and I'm excited to bring their voices to life right here. You can catch new episodes of People Force podcast every month on Apple, Spotify, YouTube and rise Streaming Netcom.

Today, we're joined by Irys Kornbluth, co-founder and CEO of Everywhere Apparel and a driving force in the quest for sustainable fashion. With a background in design from Stanford. Irys has been shaping the landscape of eco conscious fashion since 2011. Her work extends beyond design as she tirelessly seeks out sustainable materials and the manufacturing processes aimed at replacing conventional materials with an everywhere alternative.

Notably everywhere, apparels fabrics are not only cutting edge but also for luxury brands 100% recyclable and a testament to Irys's commitment for a greener future. Join us as we explore Irys's journey from her performances at Carnegie Hall. Yes, to her pivotal role in reshaping fashion's impact on the planet. Get ready to be inspired by her dedication to sustainability.

Irys, welcome! It's so great to have you here.

Irys Kornbluth: Thank you so much. Yeah, great to be here.

**Michael: **Now from, from California?

Irys: Los Angeles.

Michael: Los Angeles. So you flew in, when did you fly in?

Irys: I flew in on Thursday night. Yeah. So I've been here for a few days.

Michael: Oh, busy schedule. You were saying something about maybe it's environmental or a green initiative here?

Irys: Yes. So it's great to be here with you on Earth Day. I think this is so fun. Today is Earth Day.

Michael: Oh, this, well, this is brilliant.

Irys: You, you are brilliant.

Michael: I wish I would've thought of that.

Irys: No, it, it was alignment. Yeah. So I'm here for Earth Day. I am, you know, doing a bunch of pitches, and then I'm going down to Miami Climate Week. Then I'm going, gonna end the week at San Francisco Climate Week, and we're doing a big event there with Frog Design, which is a...

Michael: Oh, yeah, sure. Oh, is that a design firm that that works with you?

Irys: No, we're actually just co-producing an event on the circular economy and how we can use design thinking to solve sustainability issues.

Michael: Well, we're gonna get into that, but I wanna first get into your background. It's fascinating, right? I started as an actor, Broadway at 15.

Irys: At 15. Wow.

Michael: But what I thought was interesting and it's a little bit about your background as well. Is that you begin to learn, like in stage separate even from film, all the elements that go into telling the story. And how key each one of those are, whether it's, you know, set design, costume, wardrobe, design, lighting, staging, props, et cetera. And, and you really learn that trait very quickly.

Irys: Totally.

Michael: Being a part of it.

Irys: Multidimensional.

Michael: Yeah. Well, you, you, you didn't start in sustainability, right? You were in the arts.

Irys: Yes, I was. Very much so.

Michael: And, and performed at Carnegie Hall. How great is that? Was that intimidating?

Irys: By that point, I had done a lot of solo performing and a lot of competitive performing, which is like such a weird little niche of classical music. But, so that kind of felt more fun because there weren't any judges. It was just more like a performance, a little more...

Michael: What instrument?

Irys: So I grew up as a very serious classical pianist.

Michael: Wow.

Irys: So since I was four studying mostly with under sort of like the Russian school classical piano. And, you know, that was pretty much my thing up until I was like 21 years old.

Michael: Did you love it or did you get burned out? Did you love doing that, or?

Irys: I absolutely loved doing it. I remember a time when I was like 17, I was like, I can't see another way in my life, you know, that I would do for, I must go to conservatory. I'm gonna be, you know, Martha Argerich, whatever.

Michael: Yes. Awesome.

Irys: But then, you know, things shift. And I think, you know, I had a couple of competitions and I went, you know, that didn't go so well. And then I went, I got accepted to Stanford. That kind of like, opened up the possibilities of what I thought I would do with my life. And at Stanford, it was just a great education for me because so much of it was about imagining the impossible and entrepreneurship and, you know, we were all really encouraged to like, produce our own new ideas and see things that were lacking in the market and in the world that we wanna change. And so that, that became my new creative pursuit, was just kind of seeing the world in that way with more of a creative lens. So I studied design at Stanford and the product design program, which is a very interdisciplinary program, combining the arts, engineering, entrepreneurship.

Michael: But I, I love that. I taught a class at Stanford. And it was in branding and it was really about taking an idea. And this was Timbuktu luggage.

Irys: Right.

Michael: And they were really trying to be reborn and what should they be doing? And you really had to build this company, the idea, the concept, the product design. All the way through go to market. But what was interesting is it was freshmen to seniors. Right? And it was all disciplines.

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: And I thought that was the most brilliant thing I'd ever seen in a university. Cross-disciplinary attack of the project. And what each person brought to the table.

Irys: Yeah. Totally.

Michael: Talk a little bit about that. 'Cause you've met people there that actually helped you with this new company.

Irys: Yeah. I mean, all of my business partners to date, and I've had a few different ventures have been from the Stanford community, which is like remarkable. We all kind of like bond together and, you know, we will iterate in different groups and it's a very collaborative process. But, you know, I definitely came into that program with more of the art angle. More of the kind of high creative angle. But there were very technical people. My interest was always textiles. And so the fact that I was in was...

Michael: Was that always, when you say always, let's go all the way back.

Irys: Yeah. So when I was, before I started playing the piano.

Michael: Yeah. Forget. Let's go work all the way back.

Irys: Yeah. I grew...

Michael: Now wait, talk about where? Where did you grow up?

Irys: I grew up in San Diego.

Michael: Okay.

Irys: So, So Cal. Really close to the ocean. I think that was what had a huge impact on me as a kid. I was very always outdoors. I was very into nature. You know, I, when I was in kindergarten, I would like go around like feeling leaves and stuff. I mean, it was like, I had a little nature…

Michael: Oh, that's awesome.

Irys: In the kindergarten class, we were just three people at the time, but so always very into nature. Very immersive in nature. But, but fashion is sort of like my, my love language. It's just how, how I exist.

So, you know, I, alongside music, I was always kind of drawing and sketching. And it was, I was always drawing these like massive, you know, women in huge hoop skirts and, you know, I had a, I had a real thing.

Michael: You don't have one of those here?

Irys: No.

Michael: You don't one of those images?

Irys: Yeah. I know. Well, maybe I'll show you one.

Michael: We should've seen that. We wanna share that.

Irys: I'll send you one. Yeah. So was always, you know, drawing fashion. And I loved drawing houses too as well, but like, tactile things were very, like, important to me as a kid as well.

And so on the design program at Stanford, I did wanna end up focusing on textiles. There weren't many people doing that because it was mostly like UI/UX design. Hardware, like more digital, you know, products that we were designing. And so I designed my own thesis. I did an honors thesis on the textile industry. I ended up spending three months in Turkey interviewing all these different textile producers and, you know, carpet manufacturers. It's a very interesting thesis.

But I, I kind of was able to like, design my own journey and focus at Stanford, which is very, you know, wow. That's a very unique experience. And you know, it, it also, it makes you feel very independent. You're kind of on your own too. That's the other side of it where you like...

Michael: Well, I wanna go back to the parents. 'cause you know, they're all very involved when you go to college and what you're doing, what you're studying. So you went from classical piano, I'm sure they were very involved in that part of your life, and now you're moving into art and design and were they very supportive or sort of like, where does this go and what are you going to do? And...

Irys: I think they were very happy that I went sort of down the Stanford path. Instead of being sort of like an independent artist. And to, truthfully, I've kind of vacillated on that line a few times in my career.

Michael: That's good.

Irys: But, you know, those sorts of characteristics also lend themselves to a very entrepreneurial career as well, where you, you learn a lot about like, sort of how to keep things in flow, like how to float and then grow. So I think they were, you know, they were very supportive of the design degree. I think, you know, they maybe would've preferred I became a computer engineer. I did take some CS classes, you know, it was always a struggle.

Michael: Yeah. No.

Irys: Math. You know, math is struggle. Everybody at Stanford is very smart. The technical, you know. The students are very smart too. So it was hard to...

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: ...be with them.

**Michael:**Well, and I, but I think also if you have that creative capability where you're, you're left brain and right by right brain.

**Irys:**Yeah. Yeah.

Michael: Doing both. You know, and you have to do that in business, but you also have this idea, and I love what you said, you, you could do the impossible.

Irys: Yes.

Michael: And I thought that was true when I worked at Disney and with Steve Jobs, is do the impossible.

Irys: Right.

Michael: And my thing is, you can have those thoughts, but you have to have the belief. You have to believe in it and take sort of ownership of it.

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: That becomes important.

Irys: Totally.

Michael: That, that was sort of the culture there. Do you have that culture in your company today?

Irys: Yeah. I mean, I, I really we're, we are trying to do what many people think is impossible, which is create products that are truly circular. So it's a recycled item. You can turn it back and we will turn it into a new product. And that's sort of like the alchemist vision of what we want to create in the world around material products. So how can create, we create healthy circular systems for products and we're starting in textiles. You know, we might move into other verticals eventually.

Michael: You were talking leather as well, and some...

Irys: Yeah, exactly. And there's a lot of work being done on different types of plastics right now. I mean, this is the problem we need to solve.

Michael: But you, you were saying people find you, Everywhere Apparel, that you weren't out just promoting yourself. That people reached out. Some big huge luxury brands in France have reached out and, and, and are getting involved. And that becomes important because there were, there were some statistics here that, that I was looking at and I was sort of shocked. I wouldn't have known that 50% of all the greenhouse gas emissions come from the fashion and apparel business.

Irys: It's a lot. It's a lot.

Michael: And, and then you're looking at, and this was a crazy number, 4% of all fresh water globally is going to apparel. And you start going down. 30% of all chemicals are within the fashion and apparel industry.

Irys: Yep.

Michael: And you keep going down and it's like, this is incredible. And when you think about the consciousness of people, 70% believe it's important for them to consume things that are environmentally friendly.

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: And 78% will preference a product over that. So, you're in the right space and, what drove you from design into the environment that, you know, ESG.

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: The sustainable piece of this in apparel. 'Cause you like fashion, you like...

Irys: Yeah, totally. Totally.

Michael: And now you're in a world that is really critical for the planet.

Irys: Totally. I mean, I, so I started studying this intersection of sustainability and fashion over 15 years ago. And at the time, you know, it was just a very niche kind of conversation. Nobody really cared. And over the past 15 years, we've seen a complete, you know, it's like watching all the people come into our camp.

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: And now we are at a really big tipping point because what you're saying is exactly correct. You know, especially the younger consumers, they're looking at the labels, they're look studying companies. They're also calling companies out publicly for, you know, their actions and how they produce their products. So the brands are experienced a lot of pressure to find solutions, find, you know, ethical material solutions, ethical production solutions, recycling solutions. And so we're, we're really here to provide those services to brands and companies also who are buying our merchandise.

Michael: And it's, it's not just in cotton, is that right? Or is it...

Irys: We focus on cotton.

Michael: Cotton. Okay.

Irys: We do, so we have kind of two sides of our business. One of it is the collection side. So we collect different types of waste from brands, including dead stock waste of items that they can't sell because of overproduction, largely. Items that they're reclaiming back into the stores. A lot of brands now have take back programs or where does that stuff actually go? How does it get recycled and processed? And so that's one side of our business where we're just purely accepting goods for recycling. So, yeah.

Michael: And then, and then you recycle, but that you also have a line of apparel.

Irys: We do. Yes.

Michael: That you, you talk about things, you're actually selling B2B, you're selling to companies.

Irys: We are. Yeah.

Michael: For promotional products and items.

Irys: Exactly.

Michael: So talk a little bit about that piece. So you have, you know, you're making fabric for people. For their designs.

Irys: Totally.

Michael: You have your own designs.

Irys: Right.

Michael: Making your own products. And you're collecting.

Irys: Yeah. So it's...

Michael: Big parts, two big parts.

Irys: When you think about circularity in the full circle, it's like you have to have multiple channels.

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: And I think it's, it feels like a more complex business to a lot of people who are more into this or sort of like minimal Silicon Valley startup. But that's just how we have to meet people where they're at. And so, you know, that's why we have these various channels where, you know, let's say a brand comes to us, they wanna buy fabric or maybe, you know, in, another department, it makes for them to buy fully assembled apparel. We will meet them where they're at because we want them to have this solution. So, yeah. That's...

Michael: And do they come to you with the, these companies with, "Hey, listen, we have to do this, you know, report every year, annual report on how well we're doing," whether it's global emissions, you know, whether it's sustainability, you know, they do these ESG reports. Do they come to you saying, we have some targets within our organization that by 2030 we have to be this much less in carbon emissions. And we have to, and a lot of investors, and I wanna talk about this, and VCs now are looking this in particular companies like, what are you doing relative to not only ethical work, but what are you doing relative to reducing your global green emissions, et cetera.

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: So do they come to you with that?

Irys: We end up rolling up into a lot of those environmental reports. And I think when you think about the fashion industry, this is like an audience of people that are like expert trend readers. So they are reading the trends here of like, "Hey, you know, this is where consumers are going. They care about the environment. This is where the industry is going. This is where the planet is going." I mean, we're gonna, you know, cotton has already been through a few scarcities in the past few years.

Prices are rising. So I think that they are actually very forward-thinking, and that's why I think they have a lot of these companies have found us organically because they're just, they're looking for the next generation of options. So it's kind of an, it's, it's inspiring to see them kind of trying to get ahead of it. I do think that right now, you know, we're in a interesting moment where a lot of brands are testing, running pilots. They have, you know, pilot or, you know, little sub-brands. But we're seeing how is that gonna get integrated into the main mainline collections, into the mainstream products, into the Walmarts of the world where really the volume is. And so I think that was also kind of the vision behind the basic apparel too, because, and everyone wears a t-shirt.

Michael: Or sweatshirts.

Irys: Or sweatshirts. Billions of them are produced a year. You know, even, even if we don't like it, they are. And it is a marketing canvas that pretty much every company in the world uses apparel to market their business. And so, you know, the, the basic apparel is really just a replacement for that, that saves a thousand gallons of water, has a fraction of the carbon emissions, diverts about a pound of waste from a landfill.

So it has a very positive impact. And I think it's made me to be talking with an expert marketer because I, I think that, that the, the canvas of marketing really does become the fabric of, it's like the culture. And I think that people really internalize that when they see a brand marketing using a certain material, it makes difference.

Michael: Yeah. You, you bring that up because I think, you know, what I have seen in, and whether it was like at HP Labs, whether it was, you know, Walt Disney Imagineering, all of these, these collection of these innovators get very close to their product.

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: And what I learned, you know, from Steve Jobs was the simplicity of messaging that's understood by all. And, and what I found sort of at HP was the more you got the engineers involved in the communication and go to market, the more problematic it became because they're...

Irys: Very technical.

Michael: Yes. They're very passionate. They're passionate about what...

Irys: Right, right.

Michael: As they should be. But they confuse people. And I always said the worst thing is in a soundbite world, unfortunately, is to get in front of somebody and you can't explain the purpose of your company.

Irys: Right.

Michael: And or like what you do, and you have to give a paragraph out and it's convoluted with a bunch of, you know, anacronyms...

Irys: Right.

Michael: That people don't even understand.

Irys: Exactly.

Michael: And they're like, what are, what are they talking about?

Irys: Yeah, exactly.

Michael: And that's the worst. And, and so it's, it's always good because, you know, something like this, you know, everybody sort of tries to claim this.

Irys: Right.

Michael: And so you have this hesitancy in the marketplace about is it really like, there's so many sort of untruths and...

Irys: Sure, sure, sure.

Michael: Truths that sit in this system.

Irys: Yep.

Michael: Do you find that out that to get the consumer to actually really believe is, is a hurdle?

Irys: We are not finding that.

Michael: No, no.

Irys: People are jumping into what we're doing and, and they're sensing like a purity about it. And I think, you know, you know, this is our logo. I, I think there's two ways to see it. One of it is like an eye, which is like consciousness.

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: The other is, the way I see it most of the time is there's two hands holding the planet. So I think people really get the feeling from our brand that we are, we exist to protect the, to protect the earth. We do a lot of education. So we have, we have a whole section of our site called the Learn section, where we write, you know, very long detailed articles about some of these issues in fashion and how we're addressing them and why our materials are better. And so we really provide all the information for the consumer to make the choice.

One recent article we wrote was about why recycled cotton is better than organic cotton. You know, and this is like a really, you know, interesting point to be made because a lot of people think organic cotton is the sustainable version of apparel. When recycled cotton actually has tank problems better...

Michael: Well, then, you have to ask how do you define organic?

Irys: Right. And how is it tracked? And are those chain of custodies, actually, you know, can you believe in them?

Michael: Right. Well, that's where people are like, well what does this mean? Because you see that with foods too. Well, is that really organic?

Irys: Exactly. Exactly.

Michael: Like, tell me where you got that and where.

Irys: Yeah. With recycled cotton and recycling in general, it's, it's, you know, it's pretty basic. You know, it is trash. It is landfill destined cotton.

Michael: But, she's saying basically that we're gonna be wearing trash now.

Irys: Yeah. Well, you know, a lot of trash is is clean.

Michael: No. But this is amazingly soft, huh?

Irys: Yes. Yeah. It's beautiful, brush back terry.

Michael: Yeah, yeah.

Irys: I've been living in a factory for a few years. Figuratively, but...

Michael: Very, very nice.

Irys: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, to go back to, you know, one of your questions about do we only work with cotton? We only make apparel out of cotton. We do accept other materials. So we can, we do accept blends, we do accept, you know, pure synthetics. And then we route them,

Michael: Because I think, I think it was, it was some, you know, high-end double digit number that has microplastics in it.

Irys: Exactly.

Michael: Even because you have the inside. Whether, you know, the, the shell inside is made of probably plastic.

Irys: So, yeah. Interestingly, you know, the back of a fleece, usually people use polyester cotton yarns for the backings. And it's not because it necessarily feels better because that's what the consumer wants. It's because there is like a flammability tolerance for material testing. So it's to mitigate a brand's risk, ultimately against, you know, if someone were to catch fire, how quickly the garment would catch fire with them. But, but it has a terrible...

Michael: Is somebody testing that?

Irys: I don't know. They do test them in labs, but yeah. I mean, also for, for kids, babysitting.

Michael: Is that regulated?

Irys: It's regulated in, in some countries more than others. I think even the FTC in the U.S. has certain, you know, they're, they still have a tolerance where you can have a fleece that is, you know, really, really plush that's made of a 100% cotton. But brands still do it. You know, I think the high-end brands still do it because there's something really nice about a 100% cotton fleece.

Michael: Well, yeah, for sure. This is a 100%.

Irys: A 100% cotton. Yeah.

Michael: No, very, you can tell, you could tell.

Irys: No, no little pieces of plastic matter.

Michael: Just don't be around anybody with cigarettes.

Irys: Honestly, though, I mean, I feel like you wouldn't really...

Michael: No. No. Yeah. So anyhow, so, you know, one of the other things, and I don't know if you see this or are involved in this, but we were talking earlier that 90% of all the supervisors within the fashion apparel business are male. And many of the laborers are all female.

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: Has that changed? I mean, here you are, you're a co-founder, you co-founded other...

Irys: Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Michael: And, chief operating officer. Do you see a shift in that at all?

Irys: I think that, you know, it's really interesting. A lot of the founders I see in the climate and sustainability world are women. And I feel like there's something to that. I think that there, you know, maybe there's like a natural compassion or empathy that women are bringing to that space. It's, it seems uncanny to me, but maybe that's just the communities, you know, that I'm getting involved with as well. But in fashion, you know, I can't really speak too much to fashion because I never worked inside the industry. And now we're like, we're a service provider, we're a partner. But I have not been inside.

Michael: I would love to come to a meeting when you meet with one of them.

Irys: Oh, that would be so fun.

Michael: High-end fashion, just to watch.

Irys: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, well, of course, you know, the, you know, usually like CML merchandisers kind of run the show anyways.

Michael: Yeah. But, but I, but I think what would be interesting…

Irys: Or female identifying.

Michael: ...is to get the creative directors involved, forget the sort of supply side of fashion, but the creative directors to actually buy into, you know, I wanna do something great.

Irys: Right.

Michael: I wanna do something sustainable. I wanna do something that's better than where we are.

Irys: They want, and that's, and...

Michael: And when they start to add, 'cause when you were talking about you did the sketches and you're, you're all about fabrics and textile. What people don't realize is generally speaking, with these big creative directors, whether they're at Dior or they're, the first thing they do is they look at fabrics. They have a creative, overarching idea. Then they want to see fabric.

Irys: Right.

Michael: And they wanna see how the fabric will play, whether it's the pattern, the type of material. And once they start to get that, then they start doing the designs.

Irys: Right.

Michael: Right? It's not like, oh, I have a sketch, let's go make it.

Irys: Right.

Michael: It's all about fabric.

Irys: Yeah. You have to be informed by the texture of the material 'cause it drapes differently. Yeah. Everything.

Michael: So, so you, you think with that happening, it'd be great to be tied into the creative directors.

Irys: Totally.

Michael: Hey, why don't we do, you know, a whole spring, summer that's all about...

Irys: Totally. Yeah. Well we recently did. We, we are a partner to Coach and The Terry Group. And Stuart Bevers was very involved in the collection. I mean, he still looked at every single garment. And I thought that was just amazing because, you know, he did it. He, you have to have brand continuity of course. But then to get him involved in the recycled and recycling story, get him hands-on with it. I think we, we do need more creative directors getting hands-on with these materials.

Michael: Well, they'll start to do this because if you look at the millennials, and even you go down Gen X, Gen Y, all of them, you know, almost 80% of them are looking at this. Yes. But it's also important not just to the environment, but to the culture in your company. Many of these young professionals won't go work for a company that does not have very good reporting relative to...

Irys: Exactly.

Michael: …global greenhouse and sustainability.

Irys: Exactly.

Michael: And they wanna know that you're doing something good.

Irys: Exactly.

Michael: And so it also becomes important to the culture and your employee base.

Irys: Totally. Totally. And I think that extends, even if you work for Google, what kind of merch are they giving you when you first get hired, you know, what kind of products you're receiving as an end of your gift. And so that's, you know, that's where our merch comes in as well, because it is a part of the culture of the organization. What you print your logo on is very, very significant.

Michael: No, I totally agree.

Irys: And you're endorsing it.

Michael: You know, Patagonia's done such a very good job with this. And I, I thought, I thought, you know, Yvonne was, he did an amazing thing where he said, bring back and we'll give you a new one. Bring back your old.

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: We're gonna recycle.

Irys: Totally.

Michael: It's going to grow this business in the next five years by 2030 is going to grow five times.

Irys: Oh yeah.

**Michael:**Where it is today. So you're really, you're right there at the forefront of this, which is awesome. But, but what what'really interesting is, you know, most small businesses that you talk to, they're, they're, going hard for eight to 10 years till they really start to see...

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: …you know, the difference that they're making. You're only five years in.

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: And you're already, you've got major traction.

Irys: Yeah. The 10 year overnight success.

Michael: You're five.

**Irys:**That's what... Yeah, yeah. Exactly. I mean, I think there are, there are tailwinds, as they say, forces that are pushing this harder, you know, regulatory forces such as end of life, you know, legislation around what brands need to take accountability for. So repair, resell, those and also end of life recycling are three things that, you know, governments are going to start requiring that brands do. Because we can't have these things continue to accumulate in landfills as much as we have. Nobody wants that. So. Yeah. We, we don't want that. The people in, you know, other countries where we're shipping a lot of this waste, don't want that either.

Michael: But how do people, the, these, there are companies and then their individuals. Do you take product back from everybody?

Irys: We do. We do.

Michael: Now, how, how do people do that? Like how, how, yeah. How would I be like, you know, I resell stuff, 'cause I don't like the idea that I would throw anything away.

Irys: Love it. And you probably have fabulous things, you know, that need that can do a few lives. And resell should be the first step. So if you have items that are of high enough value, you know, the clean unworn resell is number one. You know.

Michael: And that's a huge business.

Irys: That's a huge business. There are a few great...

Michael: And look it, I just saw, I just saw Rent the Runway. But that's all about the dresses.

Irys: Right, right.

Michael: Just rent them, send them back.

Irys: Exactly. Yeah. Those companies, we, we do end up speaking with them because there's, after, you know, I don't know what their average cycle is, maybe 10, 50 squares, something like that. You know, you wash it, things end up needing to get recycled.

Michael: Yep. Yep.

Irys: You know, things are gonna fall out. Same with companies like Goodwill and Salvation Army.

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: They can only resell 60% of the items that get donated to them. 'cause it's just so much. One Goodwill location we were talking to in one region of a state was cycling 7 million pounds of textiles a year.

Michael: Wow. Yeah. That's one. Wow.

Irys: Yeah. Just one regional Goodwill. So there's a huge volume of these materials.

Michael: But how do they, how would we get it to you? Like, is there...

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: Is there a whole distribution network around?

Irys: Yes. So for end consumers, you can just go on our website, you can get a mailer. Right now it's free, actually. we will ship the mailer to you. You put your stuff in it and send it back to us.

Michael: That's awesome.

Irys: It's pretty straightforward. I mean, ultimately the vision would be, for example, to partner with. Like...

Michael: But you're, you're just asking for cotton material.

Irys: No, you can send us anything.

Michael: Anything.

Irys: So we don't, we don't make it complicated, to your point earlier.

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: You know, everything we do, we try to simplify it to the base level. So you can put anything in that mailer.

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: And send it back. And then on the enterprise level, it is a little different. So we work with companies to understand where their waste streams are. A lot of companies are holding dead stock, particularly in the music industry. And I'm here a meeting with a few music companies this week. Artists come back from tour. You know, there's always things they don't sell. And there's always things that, you know, get returned from tours basically. So...

Michael: And the process before Everywhere Apparel was what, they incinerated it?

Irys: Well, I went to a...

Michael: Or they go to other continents and...

Irys: A little bit of that, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. I mean, I...

Michael: I saw that when I was saying I felt that.

Irys: Yeah. I mean, incineration is still happening and you know, crazily, it does cost money to incinerate. Like brands are paying to incinerate their waste.

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: Just get rid of it because, you know, frankly it ending up in the landfills worse because someone could, now people are like actually going through landfills and saying, we found 30 Nike logos. So we found like, oh yeah. With these logos Primark and kind of categorizing the brands based on how frequently they end up in a landfill. So it's a big risk for a company for their logo to end up in a landfill. Which is why, you know, I think a lot of companies do incinerate. There have been various cases of that being called out. I won't name names because we're in the business of helping.

Michael: Yeah, no, no.

**Irys:**You know, keep this from happening. But what I've seen, you know, a lot of people just kind of let it accumulate in warehouses. I went to one, you know, recently a big music company. They probably have a whole warehouse of dead stock. Just stuff that's been returned. And you know, they don't have a...

Michael: From like previous concerts?

Irys: Previous tours. Yeah. Usually it's like a few pallets that come back from every tour and then chuck it in that warehouse and just don't talk about it for about six months. But now, now they wanna talk about it. And so, you know, that's, part of what we do is help those companies deal with that material responsibly.

And then there's also industrial waste. So it, throughout a whole supply chain, there is waste created every step. There's waste created in fabric production, waste created in cutting. All of that is also things that we can take back. That's actually considered a high higher value waste 'cause it is very clean material. It's just pretty much ready to recycle. It's right pure.

Michael: So what do you have to do when you get different colors, cotton and now you've gotta recycle this. Do you do it by hue, by color, by…

Irys: Yeah. Great question. Yeah. We, we do it by hue. So this, for example, is a heather gray cotton. Actually, it's very rare. Usually when you see heathers, they're always blending in some sort of polyester. But there's no poly blended in it. So this is like a mix and you can kind of see it in the fabric. There's some darker black, there's some lighter whites, there's some medium grays. So you can control the mix of fibers of different colors, blend them really well. And you come out with this nice, you know... And so we can do it by hue. It's not as exact as like a dyed Pantone match. But you can get really darn close and some of the colors...

Michael: So you're sorting all of this too?

Irys: They're sorting, yeah. And when you look at industrial waste, the sorting, you know, effort is way lower because usually things are coming off of production lines by color anyways. It's really easy to bail them up and keep them separate. Post-consumer waste is a little bit more challenging because usually people are just throwing a bunch of different, throwing in whatever, you know, closet cleaning. They don't care.

Michael: So it's happening now. Spring summer's coming.

**Irys:**Exactly. Every weekend we get like more orders for these mailers for recycling because people are at home going through their closets. Well I've noticed this, the trend.

**Michael:**But do you have, is it seasonal for you? Like, well winter's coming now we're gonna see more of this?

Irys: That's a great question. I don't know that we have enough data to know if it's seasonal, but I bet...

Michael: I bet there is.

Irys: Yeah, probably. Yeah. I do definitely know the weekend thing. Like we, we just always get a little spike for those mailers on the weekends.

Michael: And now where does it all go? So you have a central location.

Irys: Yeah. So operationally, we're based in LA. We also have an office in St. Louis too. And eventually we will open up a sorting and receiving center there 'cause it's midway through the country. But right now everything comes to LA. It's sorted. There's a few stages of pre-processing. We sort by material content, color. We have to de-trim the items. So we have to go through and remove aspects of the product that might get stuck in a shredder. So like cotton, zippers, sometimes very thick areas of sewing thread. Prints, heavy prints need to be removed.

So yeah, that's part of the process. And then, you know, all of those, the items that we remove from the garment though, we do end up, you know, we downcycle them essentially, which means turning them into a non, you know, a, a product of lesser value, but it's still becomes another product. So those items are things like housing installation. Or cushioning, you know, for seats.

Michael: Oh, right. Oh, yeah.

Irys: One really interesting industry we've been wanting to get into is automotive .Because there's a lot of textiles used in automotive actually.

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: A lot of stuffing, a lot of application for recycled fibers. When we originally started the company, it, the vision was like the hipster DuPont.

Michael: Was that at Stanford? Like this is what we'll be.

Irys: This was, so this, we started this business in like 2019. So that, I graduated in 2011. So it had been a while. But this is like a DuPont for 3M but like sustainable, you know, sustainable materials. And then the way we think of the apparel is, it's like our scotch tape, you know?

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: This is like our flag scotch tape product. So we do hope to expand this model to other materials, you know, outside of textile fibers where we can start being sort of like the circularity company. That would be the big vision. The impossible, you know, nut that we're trying to crack. How do we make all, all materials circular?

Michael: So what did you do before 2019? Because you had several other companies. Were they in this sustainable area or other things you were doing?

Irys: Yeah. So directly, I...

Michael: I mean, you are a serial entrepreneur.

Irys: At this point, yes. I think I may be able to call myself.

Michael: I think so. It certainly feels like it. Those days.

Irys: Yes, yes. But my previous, the company I was a part of, which I was a co-founder of as well, was a very beautiful company called VOS, supporting indigenous communities of weavers. And so it was more like a social enterprise, social impact business, also a sustainability company because everything was made using hand looms. So, you know, no machinery, no, no energy being used. So it was all like hand loom materials. And we worked with very rural populations of women mostly.

Michael: Well, you know why women, 'cause we, we researched this. If you, if you work with the women and built the cottage business within their village, it will impact the welfare of the entire community.

Irys: It's amazing

Michael: If you did that with men, they spent the money and it was never reinvested in the actual community.

Irys: Right, right, right.

Michael: And so we were like, well, we have to empower the women.

**Irys:**Yes. Great decision. And again, going back, I wonder that's why, you know, if, that's why I think in sustainability we are, we are seeing more female leaders and entrepreneurs. I'm curious to see how that evolves.

**Michael:**But you had several. So that was one.

Irys: That was one I, prior to that I had, I had been involved in a few startups. I did work for a company called Zazzle, which was sort of like a on demand, you know, print anything on a mug or a t-shirt website. It was one of the first ones. It was like Cafe Press.

Michael: Oh yeah, yeah. You print, yes.

Irys: Yeah. You could go on and print a picture of your dog on socks or something.

Michael: Yeah, yeah.

Irys: So that actually interestingly gave me the exposure to this whole market of like blank apparel or like, or t-shirts. And it's amazing how many people wanna just print random things on a t-shirt. I bet it's a huge market.

Michael: No, I'm sure. Oh, yeah.

Irys: And if we can just swap the gild in, sorry for naming names, out for an Everywhere recycled cotton tee, nobody will notice. And we're making a huge impact.

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: So I think that's part of our vision as well.

Michael: How do you get your story out? Like your go to market? Is it people find you? You know, at one point before I got there, you know, Disney built the parks and it was like, build it and they will come.

Irys: Right.

**Michael:**And they started to see competition. They're like, well, no, we actually need to market and maybe advertise. And, and so they started to build that infrastructure.

**Irys:**Right.

Michael: Do you just find that people just find you and you really don't have to at this point, have a real, you know, competitive go to market?

Irys: Mm. Yeah. I think a lot of people do find us. If you, if you Google recycled t-shirt, we're, I think we are the top organic entry, if not one of the top three.

Michael: That's awesome. So it's just like we're the top. We're doing really wild.

Irys: Yeah, recycled T-shirt. We got it.

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: But, you know, I think the real foundation of our getting the word out is we are making a very unique material. Very, very few companies are making 100% GRS certified, which is sort of like the GOTS equivalent of organic, but it's called the global recycled standard recycled cotton. And we've gotten like inbounds from the craziest brands in the world who are like, we've never seen this. Like we've been, we have sourcing people looking all over the world and we, we haven't seen this.

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: I think there's that, you know, we have a very unique product. I also think that we have a supply chain that is more localized. And so when people think about waste management and recycling, they don't want to ship containers of waste from, you know, facilities in Thailand all the way, you know, over here to be resold 'cause it just ends up being kind of a mess. So I think as people are thinking about circularizing their supply chains, they are looking at more North American, Central American based vendors. And that's where our stronghold is.

So Tapestry Group, you know, iconic American brand group expanding, you know, I think they have been one of our big partners over the past year. And we have helped, we have helped physically establish like a U.S.-based and U.S. and Mexico-based supply chain for recycled products. And I think that's an exciting part of the story to a company who's outsourced everything.

Michael: Do you generate any level of interest with the consumer? You're, you do a lot B2B to get demand coming the other way to where the brands are like, whoa, whoa. Like, these people are all about this.

Irys: Right, right, right.

Michael: And, and we're gonna have to shift faster than what we thought. Do you do, do you do anything relative to consumer direct?

Irys: Yeah. Well we are, we're launching about 12 new styles in the next couple of months. It'll all be available direct to consumer. So we're revamping our whole direct consumer experience.

Michael: I didn't know this, but that's awesome.

Irys: Yeah. And you know, we do...

Michael: You did the designs?

Irys: I did, yeah. I saw all the pattern development. You know, it's all basic stuff.

Michael: No, but that's all right. You're dealing. No, but listen. No, but there's, there is a difference with the pants and even the sweatshirts and stuff. Some people like it really baggy.

Irys: Totally.

Michael: Some want it a little more tailored.

Irys: Totally. It's a real, you know, sweatpants and sweatshirts and hoodies after the pandemic. This is like a category.

Michael: Well, you know, there was a whole, Kim Jones, the men's designer creative director for Dior, he did a whole line two years ago. Was two years ago where he took this all cotton. But he put like fleets down the front.

Irys: Oh, fun.

Michael: Did stuff that was like, wow. And then you saw like the other big brands. Coming into totally like St. Mark. They did a whole thing on just...

Irys: Yes.

Michael: But the designs were amazing.

Irys: Yes.

Michael: And, and everything's baggier for the fall anyhow.

Irys: Right.

Michael: So you'll do well if you're launching this and you have some baggy stuff.

Irys: Yeah, totally. I get that.

Michael: You'll be right on point.

Irys: The high schoolers these days, I mean the girls just big baggy T-shirts.

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: Sweatpants. It's like the, it's the Billie Eilish aesthetic.

Michael: No. Correct. Yeah, yeah.

Irys: And little tanks too.

**Michael:**Oh yeah, yeah. Well that's spring, spring break.

Irys: Yeah, exactly.

Michael: But well, so you don't have the designs here now?

Irys: I don't have the sketches. I have some more samples we can sketch.

Michael: Yeah, you do. Yeah. Well let's pull 'em up.

Irys: Okay, cool.

Michael: Yep. We're gonna get, we're gonna see some samples because this is just your typical, but this is nice guys. Look at this. Super soft, by the way. Those of you that are audio, you can't, you're gonna have to go online, you know, Everywhere Apparel. And you'll get to see some of this. For those of you that are watching via YouTube, you'll see some of this that she's pulling out now to show you some of the things that are coming. Here we go. This is awesome.

Irys: These are some, some new...

Michael: Oh wow.

Irys: This was a, I really, really like this was a new fabric we developed.

Michael: That's cool. It's like the tanks. Oh wow.

Irys: Very interesting. I mean, what we did was we put like two, two different colors through the same knitting hole. And this has a draw string.

Michael: Here. There. Yeah. Let's shorten that. So we can see over here.

Irys: Nice little jogger. A lot of what we make is unisex. So unisex. There's ways that you can merchandise as well that are more sustainable. Unisex tends to be more sustainable because you're not buying into both women's and men's size categories. Also having less sizes is more sustainable. Having more one size items is more sustainable. This is the little tank.

Michael: Yeah. It's nice.

Irys: Little, you know.

Michael: Yeah. A crop tank.

Irys: Yeah. Festival.

Michael: That's Coachella.

Irys: Exactly. Yeah. This is a product that we made for Coach, actually. It's a little plug for Coachtopia.

Michael: Coachtopia.

Irys: We, we are the, you know, supplier of all their knits, their recycled cotton knits. This is really interesting material because it's actually...

Michael: Oh, I see.

Irys: ...got that faded wash. It's an ozone wash, so there's no bleach used. It's a very sustainable process of washing. So these are just some of the examples of the treatments we can use. And then we've got some really interesting, like multicolor.

Michael: This is almost like an interior designer here.

Irys: Yeah, exactly. So I'm, I'm bringing out our, you know, our material range.

Michael: Yeah, no, it's awesome.

Irys: Get in a full presentation. And this is examples of like, color. So like when we sort by waste scrap, you know, shred, it comes out in a color. And this, there was no dyes used to produce this color. It just comes from the waste.

Michael: I mean, so it's, it's really also not just in the fabric creative, but in the manufacturing process. That you're looking at sustainability as well.

Irys: Exactly. Yeah. I mean, because we are a new company, we have the opportunity to completely reinvent the supply chain. And that's a, that's something that a big brand group can't do. And so I think that's where the competition, as you say...

Michael: Yeah.

Irys: You know, we, we can be sort of like the number one sustainability company from the get go. And that is what we're doing, I think particularly in the sense that we are not using any synthetics. So we're really trying to get ahead of that whole microplastics conversation.

Michael: Do you, do you think, we talked earlier about regulation and you were saying, you know, some of this is gonna be forced end of life.

Irys: Yes.

Michael: What type of legislation have you seen or that's already in place relative to this?

Irys: Yeah. Extended producer responsibility, EPR laws they're already active in Europe. They're active in a few states here. And what those laws are requiring is for brands to take accountability at the end of life of their products. Right now it's mostly around repair. So repair and replaceability. So great. Apple is a great example, right? Being able to, or designing components in a piece of hardware such that you can easily get something replaced, you know, get this part replaced without replacing the whole product. Or like the charger thing. I think really a great example where it's like, let's just keep the ports the same.

Michael: That's we, we all, we all love that.

Irys: Yeah. We do, yeah. So, you know, they've started in that, in, in that way, but I think they, they are going to expand to having the ability to collect items back in a store, like giving resources for the, the customer to recycle. And then very importantly, taxing brands on each item they sell in a state to cover the state's resources that they're gonna put into the recycling of that item. So that's what's coming into play now in California where brands that sell into California, based on the amount of revenue they make there, they're gonna have, they're gonna be charged a tax to cover, end of life processing. So that's very interesting.

Michael: Now, now, now...

Irys: There's a little war here.

Michael: I was just gonna say, if you're a company though there and you say no, no, we're gonna do it ourselves. Are you taxed?

Irys: Great question. I don't know. I think, I think right now...

Michael: You will.

Irys: It's just across the board. Because it's hard to, it takes, it takes time to get those take back programs going. It also not, not every brand is going to invest in that, you know.

Michael: No, and I'm saying, you know, if you're a company, it'd be like, well, I'll hire Everywhere Apparel.

Irys: Right.

Michael: You do it for me and I'll tell California you're managing this for us.

Irys: Yeah. Well...

**Michael:**We don't wanna pay the tax.

Irys: Right. Since we are, you know, we're partially based in California and I have some, I have some contacts at the state I should...

Michael: Just say. Yeah.

Irys: We're also working with a few, you know, municipalities to do pilot programs. So we've been engaging with the City of San Diego, the City of LA even the City of Vancouver. We've been contacted by cities in Massachusetts where there is an, in Massachusetts there is an actual ban on putting textiles in a landfill. So the transfer stations, you know, actually have to sort through and pull textiles out, otherwise they will get fined.

Michael: Wow.

Irys: Yeah. So we're getting into the real. you know, trap cycles here, but I hope it's been exciting to learn about how, you know, waste management really works.

Michael: No. I love though, I love that you hold this up going, this is trash.

Irys: It's great. It's just great trash though. And by the way, you know, in the fabric production process, this is all very, very clean waste. I mean, it hasn't been worn, used, washed anything. But in fabric production, there is a stage called scouring, which is putting the item in extremely hot water that essentially sterilizes it. So, you know, it's trash, but that's just, it's, it's backstory.

Michael: It starts there.

Irys: Yeah, exactly.

Michael: It starts there. Is that what you do? It goes into hot water.

Irys: Yes. So traditionally in fabric, you know, you, you spin the yarn, you knit it, then you dye it.We don't, we don't do the dyeing, but there is a pre-stage of dyeing called scouring, where it's just, you douse it in hot water, there's a little bit of silicone wash, some enzymes. It removes any wax or residue from the yarn. And that is the stage these fabrics go through. So it's very, very low chemical and less energy usage because you're not putting them, putting it in a dye bath for two hours to get the color to saturate.

Michael: Wow. That's awesome.

Irys: Sorry, very technical fabrics.

Michael: No, no, but...

Irys: The factory.

Michael: But I'm tempted to come see all this. I get to LA so that'd be quite fun to actually see what's going on.

Irys: Yeah. That'd be awesome.

Michael: But anyhow, I wanna go back to the arts.

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: 'Cause you certainly have brought that to the company as well, and you worked on films.

Irys: Oh my god. I love working on films.

Michael: That's an industry I was in for a long period of time, so I'm fascinated. Like, what did you, you worked on some Netflix projects?

Irys: Yeah, so I did, I broke away from startups for a couple years to do costume design, and I worked on a feature that is now on Netflix. It was just crazy. I was the, I was the head costume designer. I had maybe like one or two assistants, very low budget, you know, like, so hard, really, really hard work. I mean, pretty much on par with running a startup company because it was, it was actually a horror film. We did all night shoots.

Michael: Oh, wow.

Irys: It was wild. I was actually, I was just hanging with a few of my film friends last night. I feel that film sets create this incredible bond between people.

Michael: Oh yeah, for sure.

Irys: And I think when I, when I think about startup companies and like building a team, that's just always what comes to mind for me.

Michael: Oh, that's awesome. So you're credited.

Irys: Yeah

Michael: Oh, this is awesome.

Irys: I'm credited.

Michael: You need to, you need to join the academy and you can vote for all the, the wardrobe and costumes.

Irys: Exactly. And then, you know, show them my recycled clothing.

Michael: Well, this, this is such a great company. I mean, and just really very sort of futuristic in that you're really seeing what's coming and you're right in front of it and doing great work for the planet, quite frankly. I mean, we hear so much about climate change. So many companies really have to produce these reports now. Investors wanna see it, whether it's, you know, VCs or it's just general investors in public companies.

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: They want to see that there's movement and traction here.

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: And it, it was so good that you, I got noticed and found you and absolutely all, all very, you know, not circular, but all coming from tech companies, everything's like, you need to, you were, you were, you're in the fashion world. You need to look at this company.

Irys: Yeah, yeah.

Michael: And I'm glad, I mean, it's pretty awesome what you're doing.

Irys: Thank you. And thanks for having me on here. I just, I love chatting with you.

Michael: Yeah, no, this was quite fun.

Irys: Yeah. Happy Earth Day as well.

Michael: Well, happy Earth Day. No, I know. Isn't this awesome?

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: But you know, what would you say to a lot of small businesses, these are founders, officers of these small companies that are listened to this, you know, what would you say you, you've had many sort of entrepreneurial activities that you were doing and are still doing, what would you say to them? Like, what advice would you give them? You know, small business is tough, you know, it's a grind for a period of time.

Irys: Right.

Michael: What would you, you say, what words of enlightenment would you share?

Irys: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think a lot about how I got started. And I think that sort of the original vision, the original feeling, the original inspiration, it's just, it has to be maintained because you're always gonna be adding layers and complexities. But if you can't, if you can't always access that, then that is one of the biggest risks to your company and to developing your business. And so I try to do that exercise a lot. You know, just personally where I'm, I just, I will meditate. I will think about why am I doing this? What is my purpose?

Michael: The purpose. So the purpose is so important. And they do lose track.

Irys: Yes.

Michael: You see it where they'll lose track.

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: Even big companies.

Irys: Big companies lose track. 'Cause there's so many more stakeholders, it becomes less personal. So I think it can, it's can maybe even be easier for a small business to keep that sort of integrity and that authenticity. But that is what I would recommend, especially if you're getting through the grind.

Michael: Yeah. No, it is. It can be. But it's the outcome that people were always saying, you know, why are you here at TriNet? And I'm like, because we support like 28,000 small businesses in every vertical. But what they're doing is changing the world in a positive way. And, and they have ideas that they're pursuing, they're bold ideas most of the time. And it's really where innovation and progress happens.

Irys: Totally.

Michael: Not necessarily in the big companies, but it's in these small companies and you're a part of that. And with so much negative noise in the media today, you know, to have companies like yours that are inspiring and that are really doing good work.

Irys: Yeah.

Michael: Good, in the broader sense.

Irys: Right, right.

Michael: And I know that sounds a little cliche, but it isn't really.

Irys: Right.

Michael: And it's always very positive.

Irys: Yes.

Michael: And there's optimism that comes with with that.

Irys: Totally, totally.

Michael: And, and so for me, I think what you're doing is very important. I think, you know, it's important for all these small businesses that are listening.

Irys: Yeah, absolutely.

Michael: You know to, one, do the impossible. I love that what you said. I love that you said that. Do the impossible and, you know, pursue and have the tenacity to pursue it.

Irys: Yeah. Yeah.

Michael: So thank you so much, Irys, for joining.

Irys: Thank you.

Michael: This was so much fun. I'm, I love all of this with the designs and the fabric.

Irys: I know. I'm sorry, I've...

Michael: You've got me into a great place.

Irys: Well, we'll have to pick a sample for you.

Michael: Yeah, yeah.

Irys: Or we'll mail you.

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. But this was really terrific, and thank you for joining us.

Irys: Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah.

Michael: I want to remind everybody that our PeopleForce Podcast by TriNet is committed to helping small and medium-size businesses and their leaders with timely and relevant business content. The PeopleForce Podcast drops new episodes every month and we hope you continue catching our new episodes on Apple, Spotify, YouTube and Rise.TriNet.com. To get relevant SMB news and info, make sure you subscribe to our podcast and to our newsletter at TriNet.com/insights .