Revolutionizing Baby Sleep: A Conversation with Dr. Harvey Karp

Catherine Wragg: Hello, I'm so pleased to be here with you today. And I am excited to introduce you to a true luminary in the field of pediatric medicine and child development, as well as an accomplished entrepreneur, Dr. Harvey Karp. Dr. Karp is perhaps best known for his groundbreaking work in the field of infant sleep soothing techniques.

His revolutionary book “The Happiest Baby on the Block” which has sold millions of copies in multiple languages across the country, and the world, has become the ultimate go-to resource that helps to guide parents from around the world on how best to understand and nurture their infants and how to relieve many stressful situations like new parent exhaustion and infant crying.

Dr. Karp's pioneering of the five Ss—swaddling, shushing, swimming, suckling and side position—is a standard practice for helping little ones sleep more soundly and safely and to cry less. In addition to his clinical and literary pursuits, Dr. Karp's innovative spirit has led him to develop tools and products that redefine the parenting landscape. Through the company he founded, Happiest Baby, his invention of this new smart sleeper is a testament to his commitment to leveraging technology, enhancing the lives of families. Dr. Harvey Karp's tireless dedication to improving the early years of childhood has earned him, excuse me, international acclaim and the deep gratitude of countless of parents who have benefited from his wisdom.

So please join me in welcoming Dr. Harvey Karp to the TriNet PeopleForce stage.

Dr. Harvey Karp: Hello, thank you.

Catherine: Thank you for joining us today, I appreciate it. So, Mr. Karp, let's talk a little bit about, or Dr. Karp, I apologize. Before we talk about the Happiest Baby, why don't we talk a little bit about you and your background, a little bit about how you found your profession, how you are an entrepreneur, how you're an educator. So give us a little bit of insight into who you are.

Dr. Karp: Well, for many years I worked as a pediatrician down the block, you know, just the same person that you would bring your children to. And then I started writing books and I started lecturing and traveling a lot more and retired from practice, which is, you know, it's a 24/7 job to be taking care of young children. But I really became concerned by the fact that at least in the United States, thousands of babies, about 3,500 babies, healthy babies, die every year. I was just down in Washington, D.C. where we were talking about 9/11, where, you know, 3,500 Americans died in a terrible tragedy. When it comes to babies, every year is 9 /11, because 3,500 babies die every single year, no change in the last 20 years. And that really upset me. And so my wife and I decided that we would start this company to create a baby bed that not only would help babies sleep an extra hour or two, but would keep them safer to prevent them from rolling to a dangerous position.

Catherine: That's amazing. That's amazing. The passion that you have for your profession and then to save babies is phenomenal. So you started this business, you just mentioned, with your wife, Nina, which is phenomenal. How did the idea, so you talked a little bit about sort of your passion for the idea, but how did the idea after you tirelessly worked as a pediatrician for so many years, as a professor for so many years, but what made you decide at this point in your career to be an entrepreneur?

Dr. Karp: You know, I gave a lecture to a bunch of pediatricians and I said, "If another country was killing 4,000 of our babies every year, we would go to war." There's nothing we would stop at to protect our children. And yet, why aren't we doing more? And I told my wife, "I think we can solve this. And I think, you know, I need your help on this." But she said, "How long is this going to take?" And I said, "I don't know, a year, a year and a half." This is 12 years ago. I was so naive as to what was required, because I said, "How hard could it be to build a bed that rocks and shushes babies and keeps them on the back?" And it turns out it's been an extraordinary journey of learning to be an entrepreneur and build the business and source in China and deal with all sorts of aspects. The one piece of advice I would give if you're going to start a business is pick the right spouse because it would have been impossible without her help.

Catherine: No, she sounds absolutely amazing and you're very fortunate to certainly have a partner on that journey with you. So when you think about starting Happiest Baby, I think you had mentioned on, in something that I read or watched, you know, you thought it was going to be a one and a half year kind of journey, but it's actually been more than 10, more than 11 now.

Dr. Karp: It is.

Catherine: And you've had tremendous success. Tell us a little bit about this new Smart Sleeper.

Dr. Karp: So one of the things that is kind of interesting is the fact that babies have been with us for, you know, forever. What do we have to learn? What can technology bring to this kind of ancient relationship? And it turns out that there are a lot of things that we thought were true that aren't true. For example, babies can't be trained to sleep longer with Snoo. So Snoo rocks and shushes babies and when they cry, it responds with increasing rocking and shushing imitating, really, what a caregiver would do.

And then it also secures babies on the back. So we add an hour or two to the baby's sleep every night. We calm 50% of crying episodes within 30 seconds. And we keep babies safely on the back so they can't roll to an unsafe position. And then we sleep train babies so that by six months they're able to move out. That was not thought to be possible before. Even though pediatricians would tell parents, "You know what, if your child's not sleeping, there is magic that you can do to get your baby to sleep. Drive them all night in the car."

Catherine: Yes, I did that.

Dr. Karp: And even adults fall asleep in trains and planes.

Catherine: Oh, for sure.

Dr. Karp: And what's odd is that there's not a single medical study that explains—why do adults fall asleep in trains and planes and cars? Why do these rhythms soothe us so much? Shhh. The sound of the wind in the ocean, rocking in a hammock. And it turns out it's a very ancient part of our biology, which is related to babies inside the womb, because the womb is not quiet and still. It is a symphony of sensations that all end up kind of putting babies into a zen-like trance. And so when parents do that after the baby's born, or when Snoo does that all night long, that's taking advantage of that biology to be able to help babies sleep better. Parents get some sleep.

And here's why this is so important. Because the family unit that we think is normal, like two parents and a child, is completely bizarre and abnormal. The only normal family is the extended family. Up until a hundred years ago, you lived with your grandparents, your cousins, your uncles and aunts. Now parents think that they need to do everything by themselves and no one ever did that. And so they're struggling with depression and anxiety and feeling overwhelmed. And if you can give an extra hour or two of sleep and help the babies be calmer and safer. It just relieves so much of the stress and anxiety that families have.

Catherine: Sure, that exhaustion that's there from being a caretaker, from being up at night, all of that—it helps to bridge that gap for sure. And I think you have—there are many studies out there that say, exhaustion from parents to early Alzheimer's for adults, or to, you know, like you talked about, mental health. We've been talking about mental health in this conference quite a bit. Ashley Judd talked about her chosen family versus the extended family versus your nuclear family and all of that, so I think it's all super relevant. I think the Snoo has also been helpful in certain areas with the nursing protection. I think Michael talked about the nursing shortage yesterday and this is now known to help nurses in maternity wards.

Dr. Karp: Yeah, so Snoo is used in about 160 top hospitals across the country and we just published a couple of studies this year to show that each bed reduces nurse labor four to five hours per day, while improving infant outcomes and parent satisfaction and reducing nurse stress.

Catherine: That's amazing.

Dr. Karp: So we expect that this is going to be used in hospitals, really, around the world for supporting the nursing staff. And then we also work with scores and scores of corporations that provide Snoo as a benefit for their employees. Because one of the things we're realizing, and there was just an article in the New York Times a couple of days ago about the childcare shortage. And so, for the first six months of life, you can support a family, you know, we give them months off, but we want those months to be successful.

So for example, in Canada, moms in Canada can get up to 50 weeks of paid parental leave. But the incidence of postpartum depression is as high in Canada—it's actually higher in Canada—than in the United States. And part of the reason is that if you have a baby who cries a lot and you're not sleeping, you actually want to go back to work. "Can someone else take care of this baby, please?" And so part of the goal is to give parents the tools and the support they need to feel successful, feel proud of themselves, and then be able to go back to work well rested and able to do the job they need to do.

Catherine: Yeah, I think that's super important. And we just talked about how, you know, at least in the U.S. or at TriNet, if your maternity leave policy is 12 or, you know, goes up to 16 or 18 weeks, that's right when that baby is starting to figure out how to sleep on its own. And everything gets disrupted and this is actually super helpful at helping that.

Dr. Karp: At four months, babies really 'wake up to the world'. It's called the fourth trimester, that for the first three to four months, they're little mushy, smushy little babies. But then they wake up, they smile, they interact with you, and that's when sleep gets disturbed because they wake up in the middle of the night and they go, "Hey, come back, play with me." And when they're in Snoo, what happens is they wake up, they look around, but they're being rocked and shushed. And it's like you in an airplane. You're more likely to just put your head back down and fall asleep. So we find that by six months, most babies are automatically sleep trained.

And then it's a very smooth transition. We work, for example, with Children's Hospital of New Orleans because tired nurses and doctors—not a recipe for good health care. And so we're doing a study right now with Mass General using Snoo with residents who have new babies to be able to reduce burnout, improve, you know, medical decision making and reduce errors.

Catherine: So what's interesting is “The Happiest Baby” and “The Happiest Baby On The Block,” or now there's also a Happiest Baby, or “Happiest Toddler on the Block.” I need one for teenagers, so if you can help me with that.

Dr. Karp: The toddler one works pretty well for teenagers.

Catherine: Well, it's interesting, right? Because, you know, we were talking about how, you know, the shushing and the white noise and the, you know, we're simulating a baby in the womb, which is a very loud place. But adults actually need that too. You know, we've got the Calm app, we've got all these other things that we use, so it makes sense. So the Snoo and the Happiest Baby is not just, it's about the babies, it's about preventing sudden infant death, but it's really about creating a better lifestyle and a better mental position for both the child and the family.

Dr. Karp: Very much.

Catherine: It'll last through time.

Dr. Karp: Very much so.

Catherine: And all these other pieces.

Dr. Karp: You know, right now about 20% of new mothers get diagnosed with clinical depression or anxiety in our culture. It got worse during COVID. And in at-risk populations, it can be 30% or more. And when you get postpartum depression or anxiety, it tends to give you a predisposition to depression and anxiety for the rest of your life. So, our goal is, if you have more sleep and the baby is calm more, you feel more successful, you can create a virtuous cycle of feeling smart and competent, as opposed to this vicious cycle of feeling incompetent and leading to depression.

And so, over the last 20 years, we've seen no change in postpartum depression. And we're hopeful—we haven't proven it—but we're hopeful that we can be a step in improving that mental health. And ultimately, what our goal is, and I'm an older founder, so, maybe don't tell my investors this, but our goal is that everyone gets a free Snoo. Thousands of people get it free from their employers now, as a benefit, but we're now starting to work with state governments, working with the U.S. military and ultimately, with insurance companies, to provide this as a wellness benefit, very much like a breast pump, so that people can use it for six months, then we take it back, refurbish it and send it back out again. And our goal within the next five years or more is that everyone who wants to have this support will have free access to it through their employer or insurance.

Catherine: So, please, we will help champion that with our carriers, but as individuals, you can champion that too, because it's an important thing. And actually, because you mentioned the rental, it's actually very affordable because you're really talking about six months, right? That's six months. It's a bassinet. It's not a crib forever. It's not a piece of furniture forever.

Dr. Karp: And anyone can rent it for about $5 a day, so it's pretty much, you can be exhausted and spend $5 on coffee or you can use this and get some sleep and keep the baby safer. And for employers, it's even less than that. So, for the price of a coffee, our goal is to be able to give employees a 24-hour helper for those first six months of life.

Catherine: Absolutely. And it's cheaper than a baby nurse, and all those things. Absolutely. Well, I'm going to ask you one last question, because I know we're at time, but, you know, is there any piece of advice you would give to entrepreneurs? Because as you said, you started a little later. You've had multiple careers and starting this venture at this point. Is there any advice you would give that you think would be helpful for our small business watchers today?

Dr. Karp: Number one, it's a marathon race, it's not a sprint. And so recognize that when you hit problems, that's actually an opportunity to rethink and succeed. Problems are not a negative. There's no company that...

Catherine: You learn from them.

Dr. Karp: Right, exactly. And it's kind of a hackneyed saying, but it really is absolutely true. And then also pick your investors well.

Catherine: Yeah. There you go. Very good. Thank you. Well, thank you, Dr. Karp, for joining us today.

Dr. Karp: Thank you, Catherine.

Catherine: I really appreciate it. And thank you all for joining us. You're really making a difference in the world and in so many families' lives. You're certainly an inspiration and we're so happy to be a partner with you and watch your success as you go along the process.

Dr. Karp: And I have to say to you and to TriNet because we've used TriNet for many years now with our company. And you know, one of the things about being an entrepreneur is you've got to delegate so you can focus on what you need to do. And we have employees in different parts of America now, and we can't manage all of those systems on our own. So we really appreciate the service.

Catherine: It takes a village.

Dr. Karp: It does. So thank you to you as well.

Catherine: Well, thank you very much for your time and thank you for watching.

Dr. Karp: Thanks, everyone.

Catherine: Thank you. Alright.